Tim Worstall

John Pilger on Hugo Chavez

John Pilger in today’s Guardian:

Even the description of him as a "radical socialist", usually in the
pejorative, wilfully ignores the fact that he is a nationalist and
social democrat, a label many in Britain’s Labour party were once proud
to wear.

The Telegraph today, reporting a Chavez speech:

"We have broken the chains of the old, exploitative capitalist system,"
said Mr Chavez. "The state now has the obligation to build the model of
a socialist economy."

Social democracy is socialism now, is it John?

In

13 responses

  1. Cleanthes Avatar
    Cleanthes

    “Social democracy is socialism now, is it John?”
    Well, yes: it always was.
    While we are at it, do you think Pilger does even the *faintest* doubletake at the combination of Nationalist and Socialist?

    Reply
  2. Helen Avatar
    Helen

    I wonder where the democrat bit is in Chavez’s policies. But then Pilger has a track record of supporting some of the worst tyrants in the world, as long as they proclaim themselves to be on the left and anti-American.

    Reply
  3. john b Avatar
    john b

    Chavez’s overwhelming victories in free and fair elections might win him *some* ‘democratic’ credentials.
    (incidentally, I’m not a fan of Chavez, or any other leader who creates a personality cult – but ordinary Venezualans clearly are.)

    Reply
  4. Derek Buxton Avatar
    Derek Buxton

    I read that Chavez is pronouncing himself President for life, democratic or what? He will definitely go up in Pilgers estimation, probably be the first to congratulate him.

    Reply
  5. Recusant Avatar
    Recusant

    john b
    The definition of a democrat, for a leader, is not being elected to power. It’s stepping willingly aside when the electorate votes against you.
    To my mind Chavez is getting ever closer to becoming a reincarnation of Mussolini.

    Reply
  6. Mark Wadsworth Avatar
    Mark Wadsworth

    That Chavez has read the textbook on “How to be a totalitarian dictator” and is following it to the letter. In today’s FT it said that he was going to bulldoze some private housing and relocate people to new “socialist cities” instead.

    Reply
  7. Chris Palmer Avatar
    Chris Palmer

    Does that make Castro a social democrat too, since Chavez says he is following in his footsteps?

    Reply
  8. Philip Thomas Avatar
    Philip Thomas

    My leftie mates liked Chavez (because of the predictable thumbing his nose to America). From a purely personal level, the one good thing about his creeping dictatorship will be the moment I can say, “I told you so.”

    Reply
  9. The Remittance Man Avatar
    The Remittance Man

    Philip,
    How many times have those of us not enamoured of socialism been able to say “I told you so” when our predictions come true? And what bloody good has it done? The buggers never seem to learn.
    Peacable chap that I like to consider myself, I am beginning to wonder if education through extreme pain is not the only solution.

    Reply
  10. Tim Avatar
    Tim

    @Derek:
    “I read that Chavez is pronouncing himself President for life, democratic or what? He will definitely go up in Pilgers estimation, probably be the first to congratulate him.”
    Chavez is proposing no limits on the number of presidential terms. This is no different than Canada and the UK. Secondly, Chavez’s proposals must be passed by a popular referendum (a requirement thanks to the constitution his party created). So the final decision is in the hands of the people, not Chavez, and this is due to the new Constitution which empowered the people.
    I don’t see how that is undemocratic.
    @Recusant: “The definition of a democrat, for a leader, is not being elected to power. It’s stepping willingly aside when the electorate votes against you.
    To my mind Chavez is getting ever closer to becoming a reincarnation of Mussolini.”
    When has Chavez been voted against? What makes Chavez a reincarnation of Mussolini? He has always won convincingly all elections he was involved in.
    I think you idiots need to read more before making comments about issues you’re all clearly ignorant about.

    Reply
  11. Tim Avatar
    Tim

    I’d like to add that even if the people pass Chavez’s proposals. This does not mean Chavez will be president for life like Derek suggests. Chavez would still need to be re-elected. You people by into the media spin much too easily. Read up on the new Venezuelan constitution which was created by the Chavez party and tell me what’s undemocratic about it. In fact, the recall elections utilized by the same party that tried to get rid of him in a violent coup d’etat was legal BECAUSE of the constitution. That’s right. Chavez put in the constitution that any elected president can be recalled. This is more democratic that the United States where the current president has an incredibly low approval rating yet remains in power. If this was Venezuela, there would be a recall vote and Bush would be out.

    Reply
  12. Tim Avatar
    Tim

    One last comment. This constitution I speak of is the one that Chavez’s party proposed in 1999 after Chavez was elected. Proposed is the key word here. They did not force it on the people, they let the people vote “yes” or “no” on whether they accept the new constitution. This is a first in Venezuelan history. This is why they say the Venezuelan constitution is the people’s constitution, because it was voted in by the people.
    Not even the US can say this about their constitution. But I guess because Chavez is against US imperialism in Latin America that makes him a dictator. *rolls eyes*

    Reply
  13. assman Avatar
    assman

    @Tim: Nothing that he is doing is undemocratic but democracy is not enough. All successful prosperous states are more than just democratic. They also have private property, rule of law, limited governments. Chavez is trying to make his government unlimited. He wants government to have power and control over everything. This is basically totalitarianism. You think democracy is adequate protection against totalitarianism. I don’t think so.

    Reply

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