Tim Worstall

Raising the Driving Age

Gosh, it looks like the UK is going to move to the Portuguese system of training to take your driving test.


The minimum legal driving age is expected to rise to 18 as part of reforms to
cut the number of deaths caused on Britain’s roads by novice drivers.


Ministers are to propose a 12-month training period for new drivers, in effect
preventing 17-year-olds from holding a full licence, The Times has learnt.

…


Research by the Department for Transport (DfT) suggests that a 12-month
learning period would save up to 1,000 deaths and up to 7,000 serious
injuries a year.

Soooo. Quick question. Who has a higher death rate on the roads? The UK or Portugal? What’s that? Portugal you say?  Gosh, so, in order to save lives we’re going to move to a training system that causes more deaths?

Wondrous are the ways of Government, don’t you think?

In

16 responses

  1. Anthony North Avatar
    Anthony North

    Who causes more deaths? Young drivers or – politicians?
    Maybe we should introduce a training period for politicians – say, 50 years?

    Reply
  2. Bob B Avatar
    Bob B

    C’mon:
    “Ten years ago there were 13.8 deaths for every 100,000 drivers aged between 17 and 20; in 2005 that rate had climbed to 19.2”.
    http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/article2204194.ece
    As for international comparisons of road accident fatalities, we have a low fatality rate compared with almost all other affluent countries – try Table 10.7 in Transport Statistics for Great Britain 2006, chp.10:
    http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/tsgb/2006edition/sectionteninternationalcompa1849
    The fact is that yoof in Britain after 10 years of Blairism are about the worst behaved in Europe:
    “Britain’s teenagers are among the most badly behaved in Europe, a study by a think-tank has suggested. On every indicator of bad behaviour – drugs, drink, violence, promiscuity – the UK was at or near the top, said the Institute for Public Policy Research.
    “The institute looked at the results of a number of studies of adolescents conducted in recent years. The researchers believe the country’s record can be explained by a collapse in family and community life in the UK.”
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6108302.stm

    Reply
  3. Anthony Avatar
    Anthony

    So you would argue dropping the age in Portugal would make the roads safer?
    Having been in a 20 yard skid in Lisbon in the back of a taxi, narrowly missing a head on with a bus, I suggest that there are other things about Portugese driving culture pushing up road deaths.
    Tim adds: We do try down here, over a pint or two, to try and work out what it is that makes the P such terrible drivers. Not come up with any answer as yet but we’re pretty sure that the method of training is part of it: which includes that minimum one year to get a licence.

    Reply
  4. Zorro Avatar
    Zorro

    This is one of the most stupid ideas this illeberal bunch of fuckwits has come up with so far (and that is really fucking saying something).
    I will tell you exactly what will happen:
    First year after this is introduced. Deaths (of car drivers) go down by a few thousand (obviously because there would be a lot of 17 year olds who would have passed their tests but suddenly now cannot, so there would be a lot less new drivers on the road).
    Second year. All the people who hit 18 will go out get cars and the death toll will rise significantly on the year before. Henceforth deaths per year will be exactly the same (or as near as makes no odds.)
    In the mean time, in the first year, graffiti, vandalism and general crime will rise dramatically in rural areas, due to feral, pissed off, unable to drive 17 year olds.
    In the mean time, unless laws re mopeds are changes, a LOT of 16/17 year olds will get mopeds who previously would have waited to get a car. Most of them will end up smeared on the road. Overall road deaths will rise.
    On the other hand, what would make a lot more sense would be to introduce a law stating that anyone under the age of 25 can only drive cars with an engine less than 1000cc and less than 50bhp/ton power to weight ratio. (or something along those lines – then little rich kid would not be able to borrow daddys porsche and wrap it straight round a tree)
    Oh and train ’em to drive younger. Driving is easier than reading and writing. Teach kids to drive off road, in school, as soon as they can reach the pedals.
    What makes people safer drivers is experience. 18 year old drivers are no safer than 17 year old drivers.

    Reply
  5. Philip Thomas Avatar
    Philip Thomas

    Mostly solid points, Zorro, though I take exception to restricting the rights of 18-25 year olds in the type of car they can drive. You’re old enough to drive a tank but not a porsche?
    However, as for teaching them to drive earlier, all for it. Half the problems with the youth today is that we restrict everything till they’re no longer kids and then act surprised when they act all out of sorts when they’re finally allowed it. Hence, immature attitudes towards driving, drinking, risk in general. Start young and they’ll learn the responsibility that comes with it. Might make insurance more affordable for most as well so that they can drive something other than ol’ bangers with poor saftey features.

    Reply
  6. JuliaM Avatar
    JuliaM

    “On the other hand, what would make a lot more sense….(lots of very easy to administer restrictions followed by sensible approach to teaching driving skills snipped for brevity)”
    Couldn’t agree more. It’s one of those things that makes so much sense, you wonder why intelligent, real-world politicians can’t see it…oh, hang on…

    Reply
  7. Bob B Avatar
    Bob B

    All this is missing the point – young drivers are killing more people on the roads nowadays than they used to:
    “Ten years ago there were 13.8 deaths for every 100,000 drivers aged between 17 and 20; in 2005 that rate had climbed to 19.2”.
    http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/article2204194.ece
    Why – and what is to be done about it?

    Reply
  8. JuliaM Avatar
    JuliaM

    “….young drivers are killing more people on the roads nowadays than they used to…..Why – and what is to be done about it?”
    I wonder if it ties in to the transfer of policing from traffic police to cameras..?

    Reply
  9. Bob B Avatar
    Bob B

    “I wonder if it ties in to the transfer of policing from traffic police to cameras..?”
    But why would that differentially encourage specifically young drivers to kill more on the roads when total road accident fatalities have been falling on trend and Britain has one of the lowest rates of road accident fatalities among affluent countries?
    Are young drivers in Britain just especially perverse and determined to buck the national trend in traffic accidents or could the fact that young drivers are now killing more on the roads be linked with recent reports that, after tend years of Blairism, British teens are among the worst behaved in Europe on a wide range of indicators?
    “Britain’s teenagers are among the most badly behaved in Europe, a study by a think-tank has suggested. On every indicator of bad behaviour – drugs, drink, violence, promiscuity – the UK was at or near the top, said the Institute for Public Policy Research.
    “The institute looked at the results of a number of studies of adolescents conducted in recent years. The researchers believe the country’s record can be explained by a collapse in family and community life in the UK. . .”
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6108302.stm

    Reply
  10. dearieme Avatar
    dearieme

    Here is the answer. Before you are allowed to drive a car, you have to have held a motor-cycling licence for a year. To get that, you have to have passed your cycling proficiency test at least two years earlier. To get that you’ve got to have passed… oh, I don’t know, maybe the Excellence at Skipping certificate that my nipper got in Queensland.

    Reply
  11. DocBud Avatar
    DocBud

    “Ten years ago there were 13.8 deaths for every 100,000 drivers aged between 17 and 20; in 2005 that rate had climbed to 19.2”.
    The report can be found here:
    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmselect/cmtran/355/35504.htm#n17
    The figures did not “climb” to 19.2 but show a clear spike in 2002 when the years change from being quoted as 1998-2000 and 1999-2001 to single years, e.g. 2002, 2003. This raises the possibilty of the increase in rate being a statistical quirk rather than a reality.
    It should be borne in mind that these figures relate to 17-20 year olds so they are not proof that 17 year olds are worse drivers than 18 year olds. Furthermore, while any road fatality is a tragedy, the figures suggest that the overwhelming majority of young drivers are competent drivers. Measures should be aimed at identifying the small minority who are not and why it is that they are bad drivers. The same tends to apply to older drivers, my experience is that it is the same people who keep having accidents.

    Reply
  12. Gengee Avatar
    Gengee

    Bob B asks
    `But why would that differentially encourage specifically young drivers to kill more on the roads when total road accident fatalities have been falling on trend and Britain has one of the lowest rates of road accident fatalities among affluent countries?’
    not entirely sure, but I would say, something along the lines of this. ‘Cameras are not on wheels and do not chase drivers behaving badly’ The ‘Jam Sandwich’ of my youth had a very real effect on the way people drove.

    Reply
  13. Bob B Avatar
    Bob B

    DocBud – How about this then?
    “THE death rate among young drivers has doubled in the past five years, prompting demands for greater restrictions on those who have recently passed their tests. The steady improvement in road safety across the general population is masking a sharp increase in the number of drivers aged under 20 having fatal crashes, despite a tougher driving test.”
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3223-2116254,00.html

    Reply
  14. Docbud Avatar
    Docbud

    The statistics quoted appear to be at odds with the earlier report, but whatever, if 19.2/100000 are killing themselves, 99980.8/100000 are not. Now some of these may be lucky, but I take the numbers to indicate that most young drivers are safe and responsible, I know my 18 year old daughter is. As the timesonline article says:
    “Many of the crashes involve groups of young people travelling together late at night, often with the driver under the influence of alcohol or drugs.” I.e. many accidents are due to people breaking the law. Curfews or limits on passengers won’t stop law breakers, what they will do is unfairly penalise and inconvenience responsible, safe drivers. If you haven’t shown yourself to be an irresponsible or bad driver, you should not be treated as one. When these measures fail, just as previous measures that don’t target the actual problem have, what next? Raise the driving age to 25?

    Reply
  15. Thom Avatar
    Thom

    I dont know whether this is true but if it is it could explain something towards the terrible road accidents and the general crappiness of the drivers:
    My inlaws moved to Portugal; on a recent visit they and their ex-pat friends told us a slightly crazier rule in that if you fail your driving test in Portugal for a fee they will SELL you your licence.
    Now that is insane.

    Reply
  16. corey Avatar
    corey

    this is rediculous trying to increase the driving age to 18! im nearly 17 and im more mature than half the 18-25 year olds in my college! making 16-17 year olds wait another year to drive would cause frustration and will increase the number of deaths in young drivers as they will be more anxious to get out in a car!

    Reply

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