Ken Livingstone on The Olympic Games

Well, Ken does have a point here actually.

The same problem arose with the introduction of congestion charging,
when predictions of doom were the daily diet of a vast majority of the
media for months before the introduction of the scheme, particularly
the print media.

There was not a motoring correspondent who did not predict the end
of civilisation as we know it. In fact, as was all too obvious, they
actually wanted their crazed headlines to come true. They were not just
hyping up negative stories for circulation – they actually believed
what they wrote. They were proved wrong.

That’s because congestion charging is an intelligent piece of economics. It was Sir Alan Walters who did the original work on it: you remember him? Margaret Thatcher’s person economic advisor. The one policy that you’ve implemented that could indeed be called successful was straight out of the Thatcherite playbook. Excellent, stopped clocks and all that, correct occasionally.

Now, does your desire to splurge billions upon pump priming and centrally controlled regeneration meet the same test? Is it economically effective, supported in theory by the vast majority of economists and, crucially, is it a good sensible right wing idea? No? Then you really can’t use your use of one decent idea to argue that all of your ideas are decent then, can you? 

21 responses

  1. Not the only subject on which our Ken’s brain works in wondrous ways. More in my post today.

  2. Ok both Ken & Michael Heseltine (on the Daily Politics) saying something sane? I am very worried.

  3. Sorry, but this is the most arrant nonsense!
    Red Kens congestion charge has done precisely nothing to alleviate London’s traffic problems, has done nothing to improve the lot of Londoners who must use public transport and has done nothing to improve the infrastructure of this city.
    We are now going to have the congestion zone enlarged so that the Ginger Tosser can trouser yet more money from the ordinary people who need cars for work.We are told that there will be a period of public consultation on this, but curiously the new cameras for the extended zone have already been installed – you can almost hear the ballot boxes being stuffed can’t you.
    Finally we have the gesture politics of charging people with 4×4’s extra; pure class envy from the nastiest little scrote to ever oil his way into a post.
    BTW< I ride a motorcycle and so am not affected, to forestall the obvious criticism.

  4. John Lettice Avatar
    John Lettice

    Tsk. Before describing the congestion charge as an intelligent piece of economics you really ought to take a close look at the numbers. The trouble you’ll have digging out the unspun ones should, perhaps, be taken as a clue. (-:

  5. @ Robert: anyone who drives a 4X4 in inner London simply /is/ a selfish moron, and anyone (taxi drivers aside) who claims they need a car for work in inner London is lying.
    @ JL: interesting point, has your august organ done any work on the matter?

  6. john b
    anyone who drives a 4X4 in inner London simply /is/ a selfish moron, and anyone (taxi drivers aside) who claims they need a car for work in inner London is lying.
    Shear class envying bollocks.
    Who are you or Ken or anyone to say what a person should spend their own money on.
    Go on – bring up ‘Global Warming’, latest fascist plan for domination; We’re only doing it to save the planet, it’s for you’re/the penguins/ the fucking Martians own good.
    No, I dont have a Land Rover, but I’m going to buy one just to piss Ken off, and with a wonky number plate to screw his revenue cameras.

  7. And your little dog too!

  8. “anyone who drives a 4X4 in inner London simply /is/ a selfish moron, and anyone (taxi drivers aside) who claims they need a car for work in inner London is lying.”
    Ah, that’s what I like to see – what blogging was made for. Someone arguing a case from well researched facts, showing critical thinking, and….oh, wait….
    Nope, I guess not! Just ill-informed, vapid opinonated bullshit.

  9. “No, I dont have a Land Rover, but I’m going to buy one just to piss Ken off”
    Well, I didn’t buy my Jeep Grand Cherokee last year to piss off idiots that are beneath my notice anyway.
    I bought it for its better visibility and crash-survivabilty, its greater load carrying capacity and its comfort. Also, because I could, given a free society, spend my hard earned money on whatever I wished to.
    The fact that it pisses off the likes of Ken Livingstone and the clown above is merely a nice-to-have optional extra, like the heated seats 😉

  10. “JuliaM”…
    You may as well as riding in comfort and pissing off Red Ken, unwittingly, be “helping to save the planet”.
    In the figures that I’ve seen for “dust to dust” lifetime energy budgets for motor vehicles (agregates the energy needed to build, lifetime fuel etc consumption and energy to dispose) the big Jeeps come very high in the list (somewhere in the top half-dozen) largely because they last a long time. The much-vaunted darling of the greens, the Toyota Prius, comes about 85th!

  11. Now that’s what I like to see, a degenerative argument!
    At least the Cherokee scores highly in the least environmentally damaging stakes [ I’d post a link but I’m not clever enough ] in comparison with all those nast nasty lithium batteries and silicon chips in the autohybrids populating the drives of the ecocognoscenti.
    My theory is that the Congestion Charge and Road Pricing is simply NewLab’s cunning plan to replace a diminishing Tobacco Tax Windfall.
    Someone’s got to pay for all those excessive top level civil service pensions!
    It says somewhere in Ecclesiastes, “There’s nothing new under the sun!”
    Basically, unimaginative and unschooled politicians will continue dabbling in each other’s ponds till they shuffle off and collect said pension. The sad thing is we let generation after generation of them get away with it.
    Military Dictatorship anyone?
    Who’s got General Sir Mike Jackson’s mobile number then?

  12. “the big Jeeps come very high in the list …largely because they last a long time”
    Interesting fact, thanks!

  13. I found the link!
    The thing about vehicles was a ‘Dust to Dust’ study! That’s almost apocalyptic isn’t it!
    http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/
    Well there you go guys!

  14. Traffic congestion is a problem that needs to be solved. The Olympics are a problem that city councils visit upon themselves at the public’s expense. Hardly anyone is interested in the Olympics. Cancel the 2012 Olympics now and see how much anyone cares. The public of the UK couldn’t care less if the Olympics are staged or not.

  15. @ Robert – we have laws to stop people doing harm to others. If you accept the principle that I shouldn’t be allowed to pay someone to beat you up, then you must also accept that Ken (as elected civic leader) does have some kind of right to “say what a person should spend their own money on”.
    @ JuliaM – it somehow doesn’t surprise me that you drive a 4×4, nor that the main reason is to ensure that other road users become more likely to die than you. Thanks for providing evidence for my theory…

  16. If you accept the principle that I shouldn’t be allowed to pay someone to beat you up, then you must also accept that Ken (as elected civic leader) does have some kind of right to “say what a person should spend their own money on”.
    Wow, is it national intellectually challenged day?
    …..If you accept that the state has some power, you must accept tyranny….
    How the hell can you equate violence with the freedom to spend your own money??????

  17. I have no objection to JuliaM spending her money on things which don’t negatively affect my chances of survival; I have some objection to her spending her money on things which do negatively affect my chances of survival.
    And if JuliaM, or anyone else, drives a 4×4 in London, that makes her more likely to kill me.
    Whether the increased risk of people being killed by JuliaM’s 4×4 is great enough compared to the benefits it brings to her to justify imposing restrictions is another question – but it’s trivially true that there is a conflict.

  18. “..if JuliaM, or anyone else, drives a 4×4 in London, that makes her more likely to kill me.”
    Well, we’ll compromise, eh? You promise not to step into the road without looking, and I promise to brake at least as hard as I would for a cat, dog or fox. OK?
    Or were you referring to the “4x4s are killing the planet!!!!!!” ‘argument’….?

  19. No, I was referring to the fact that a 4×4 is more likely to kill other road users than a normal car, motorbike or bike.
    While I have major concerns about the whole-life-cost study cited above (its estimates don’t seem to tally with other studies suggesting manufacturing costs represent about 10% of whole-life costs), the harm argument can be made without including environmental damage.

  20. “No, I was referring to the fact that a 4×4 is more likely to kill other road users than a normal car, motorbike or bike.”
    What about an MPV (also a high, heavy vehicle)..? Minivan (ditto)..? How do they do in the crash tests?
    So, if 4x4s came with soft plastic bumpers & other harm-reducing kit, bringing them down to the level of ‘normal cars’, you’d then be happy, would you….?

  21. “…it somehow doesn’t surprise me that you drive a 4×4, nor that the main reason is to ensure that other road users become more likely to die than you.”
    Why Mr Band, you hardly know me…. 😉
    And I suppose buyers of smaller, ‘more economical’ cars do so because the main reason is that they have an equal chance of dying in a crash? How very egalitarian of them……
    “Wow, is it national intellectually challenged day?”
    Yes, Serf. For some people, I suspect it’s just that every day…..

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