Tim Worstall

Pat Buchanan on Immigration

Yes, he’s got a new book out. America will be swamped, swamped I tell you, by all those brown folks!

In an interview with Time magazine, Mr Buchanan said:
"I’m predicting that America will no longer be one nation but more like
the Roman Empire – a conglomerate of races and cultures held together
by a regime. The country I grew up in was culturally united, even if it
was racially divided.

"We spoke the same language, had the same faith, laughed at the same comedians. We were one nationality.

"We’re
ceasing to be that when you have hundreds of thousands of people who
want to retain their own culture, their own language, their own
loyalty."

Odd how second generation immigrants all speak English and third generation ones seem to only speak English then really.

Mr Buchanan is on the Right of the Republican party but is still considered a serious political figure.

He is?

In

21 responses

  1. MyResponseToYourPost Avatar
    MyResponseToYourPost

    I offer a generic response to your type of post at my link, complete with a thought experiment that might open some eyes, at least of your readers.
    As for speaking the language, there are other factors to consider. For instance, what percent of those consider themselves “Americans” instead of “Mexicans”? And, are there forces – such as the far-left or the Mexican government – aggressively attempting to prevent assimilation? And, is anything being done to counteract those forces? And, what about the tremendous dropout rate? And, what about dual citizenship? I look forward to a rational discussion of those points in your future posts.
    Tim adds: “what percent of those consider themselves “Americans” instead of “Mexicans”?”
    First generation, not many, second generation many more, third generation, most or all. Just as with previous waves of immigration. Why is dual citizenship a problem? Just about every other country has no problem with it.

    Reply
  2. Martin Avatar
    Martin

    Tim,
    The answer to your question is Yes, and admired as much in some parts of the UK as he is in the USA.
    How much of his work have you read?

    Reply
  3. Andrew Paterson Avatar
    Andrew Paterson

    I would say the answer to that question is no. The lunatic fringe of the Democrat party is taken far more seriously, probably as via the net they’re effecively trying to take it over. Pat Buchannan will never have a seat of honour at the Republican National Convention as Michael Moore did at the Democrat National Convention, next to Jimmy Carter no less, in 2004.

    Reply
  4. Tristan Avatar
    Tristan

    My cousin is 2nd or 3rd generation US citizen from Mexico. She doesn’t speak much spanish.
    Interestingly she doesn’t consider herself American first of all, she considers herself Texan, then American.
    My other half works in a hospital in Indiana. She has far more respect for the mexicans who come in. Not all speak english (and through stupid legislation she’s not allowed to speak spanish to them as she doesn’t have the requisite certificate), but their children do and they do not want to rely on medicare/aid but will work out a payment plan with the hospital.
    They are there to work, and that’s what they’ll do. Unlike the white trash who come in demanding the moon on a stick, living off benefits because they can’t be bothered to work.

    Reply
  5. Martin Avatar
    Martin

    “White Trash”?
    “Moon on a stick”?
    Tristan, many have not come in, they have broken in. The anomaly of birthright citizenship means that the interlopers are home and dry as soon as they drop a sprog.
    And that’s even without mentioning the downward effect on wages that the interlopers have on the ‘white trash’ whose jobs they displace.
    But that’s good for business so we’re all just supposed to shut up about it and take it.

    Reply
  6. Emily Avatar
    Emily

    No, Pat Buchanan is not considered a serious politician and I can’t think of anybody who considers the guy anything more than a punchline to a bad joke.

    Reply
  7. Martin Avatar
    Martin

    Emily, I happen to think the man’s a patriot and a visionary. If that makes me a bad joke, well and good, I couldn’t care less. After all, we’ve tried virtually everything else and it hasn’t worked. Why not Buchananism?
    Andrew, what you are describing is the political reality of 2004 – that year, incidentally, Buchanan endorsed Bush as the least worst option. Since then, the Iraq war that Buchanan has opposed since it was first proposed has gone markedly downhill. The false economic boom generated by the global labour arbitrage and consumption fuelled by the extraction of equity is within a hair’s breadth of collapse. A Republican loss of either or both of the House or the Senate will make Bush a lame duck and the neocons who do his thinking for him look extremely stupid. This outcome is a real possibility.
    Should that happen, then Republican politics may turn remarkedly more Buchananite in character. Don’t write Pat off from getting his seat of honour just yet.

    Reply
  8. Martin Avatar
    Martin

    Tim,
    A thought just occurred to me.
    You wrote,
    “Why is dual citizenship a problem? Just about every other country has no problem with it.”
    Surely that’s their business, not ours.
    Personally I think dual citizenship’s a load of crap, a legal nonsense; and there’s no greater argument against the idea than seeing hundreds of thousands of marchers waving Mexican flags on the streets of Chicago, as happened earlier this year.
    If that happened in the UK I have to say I think I’d be mightily peeved.
    Tim adds: So which should I send back? My Irish one or my English one?

    Reply
  9. Steve G Avatar
    Steve G

    A chap I used to know in California was very proud of the fact his family had owned and farmed the same land there for seven generations, as had most of the other ranchers in that particularly valley, and that his great (I think) grandfather had ridden with Vallejo. He, as his family had always done, spoke Spanish at home and English outside.
    He used to wax very eloquent on the subject of people whose grandparents had come over from Poland or Ireland or somewhere and whose parents had then moved to California in the last 50 years having the nerve to complain about the effect Mexicans, of all people, had on the local culture.

    Reply
  10. Martin Avatar
    Martin

    Steve,
    The problem for those few Californians I know is that they feel Vallejo is riding over them.

    Reply
  11. P. Froward Avatar
    P. Froward

    …[Buchanan]’s a patriot and a visionary…
    That’s not inconsistent with “bigot”, and “fool”. I happen to think both his vision and his form of patriotism, while genuinely felt, are nuts. Un-American, too: Pat’s all about security first, hunkering down, avoiding risks, and cutting our losses. That has nothing to do with the boundless, irrational, greed-crazed optimism which lies at the heart of our national character.
    By all accounts he’s a charming guy, though.
    Anyhow, I agree about not wanting to allow dual citizenship just because “everybody else does”. Just because Belgium or Montenegro has some idiotic law, how’s that supposed to prove that we should pass one like it? People who spout that gibberish never explain their logic. I don’t think they have any. It’s just self-evident to them that any nation as wildly successful as, say, Luxembourg, obviously has a lot to teach a hapless nonentity like the US, so anything they do and we don’t is necessarily The Right Way. What a bunch of crap.

    Reply
  12. MikeinAppalachia Avatar
    MikeinAppalachia

    Emily probably “….doesn’t know anyone who voted for him.”

    Reply
  13. MikeinAppalacia Avatar
    MikeinAppalacia

    Odd how second generation immigrants all speak English and third generation ones seem to only speak English then really.
    Tim evidently hasn’t spent much time in SoCal, Miami, NOVA, or Chicago lately.

    Reply
  14. Orgon Avatar
    Orgon

    Just because the third generation speaks English —
    doesn’t mean it has assimilated. The young men
    from North Africa who rioted in France for two
    weeks last year all spoke excellent French.
    Besides, the Spanish language is easy to reacquire generations later as part of a wider
    Mexican movement to reconquer the Southwest.
    That’s how Cruz Bastamante did it when he ran for governor (he grew up not knowing Spanish).

    Reply
  15. Martin Avatar
    Martin

    P.,
    “the boundless, irrational, greed-crazed optimism which lies at the heart of our national character”.
    Like Thomas Jefferson’s optimism, for example?
    Or George Washington’s?
    Or The Know-Nothings?

    Reply
  16. Orgon Avatar
    Orgon

    “Why is dual citizenship a problem?”
    Because it’s also dual loyalty — putting the interests of one nation above what’s supposed to
    be your own.
    I can’t believe anyone actually has to ask this question…

    Reply
  17. P. Froward Avatar
    P. Froward

    Orgon, you don’t need formal dual citizenship to have dual loyalties, nor vice versa.
    Martin, yeah, there’s always been a strain of Know-Nothingism and America-Firstism in the US. There’s always some fool whose nerve cracks and he tries to grab the wheel, but they don’t often succeed. They don’t define us.
    Would Buchanan have approved of the Louisiana Purchase if he’d been around at the time? I doubt it.

    Reply
  18. Orgon Avatar
    Orgon

    Froward,
    Dual citizenship tends to = dual loyalty.

    Reply
  19. Steve G Avatar
    Steve G

    Martin, am I to take they feel Vallejo is riding over them as an ironic comment on Californians’ lack of knowledge of their own state’s history?
    (For those who may not be familiar with the history of California, Vallejo was instrumental in taking California out of the control of Mexico and into the Union).

    Reply
  20. Martin Avatar
    Martin

    Steve,
    No it wasn’t. It was a comment on the aim of La Raza and MechA to achieve ‘Reconquista’.
    The only person whose ignorance it displayed was mine – heck, I’m a self-confessed Scottish Buchananite – although one would have thought the Mexican culture and heritage that your friend celebrates was actually more Spanish than Chicano in character.
    After all, would Zorro have been celebrated in ‘narcocorridos’? Or joined the Zetas?
    I think you’ll find that that’s the real complaint that those Americans of Polish and Irish extraction have concerning the effect of current Mexican culture on Californian life.
    P.,
    Presumably your understanding of what America is does not define it for all your fellow citizens.
    So I suppose that both yours and Pat’s views are equally valid – although if he had disapproved of the Lousisana Purchase I don’t imagine he’d be so vociferous in his opposition to ‘Reconquista’.

    Reply
  21. Martin Avatar
    Martin

    Tim,
    Just saw your addendum to an earlier comment.
    You can send back whichever flag you like – although I don’t imagine you wave them on the streets of Cascais while demanding Portuguese citizenship, which is what the Mexicans did in America earlier this year.
    You’ve got an Irish flag? I qualify for irish birthright citizenship, my missus is from Cork and I don’t have an Irish flag! God Bless All Here!

    Reply

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